theborgmatrix.com
Games, AI and Economics
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

proposed cl_pure setting
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    theborgmatrix.com Forum Index -> General Engine Developement
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mSparks
Advanced Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: North West UK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

while Im stuck for doing any coding its idea time
ok I'm not planning any big changes, but its more related to ensuring people using your server are using the ltktbm client.

basicaly its a cl_pure setting for ltktbm, and a new command that will be sent to clients. (a simple Q2 client with the ability to connect to these servers wil be provided as a precaution)

what happens is, the server can send various commands to clients, these are usually used for generating client side effects such as smoke or blood, (you may of seen ones such as TE_BLOOD).

to start with it wont be very secure, but I can improve it at a later date.

what will happen is just after a client connects if the server has cl_pure set, first it will send a (custom) message to them like "This server requires you use a pure version of ltktbm, if you are not you will find yourself disconnected shortly", then it will send a new one, TE_IDENTIFY followed by some random numbers, if the client is using a standard Q2 client, they will then drop with with an error message. If they are using the ltktbm client, they will then will then automatically send the server command "IAM" followed by the server numbers run through a simple encryption algorithm, if the key used to encrypt these numbers is the same as the servers, they (and only they) will recieve a message "Authentication complete", and they will stay connected, if the server doesn't recognise the response it will then kick them with a custom reason.

this way the source can remain open, but the actual key used in the encryption will not be provided and will be tied into the exe, gl and soft drivers.

if the client has cl_pure set, they will not be able to modify gl_modulate and certain other settings, if they dont then these settings will be open (but they wont complete the authorisation on pure servers)

Quote:
So what happens if someone modifys the source so they can change gl_modulate when cl_pure is enabled


well, their source will compile, and they will then be able to change gl_modulate and the other settings with cl_pure enabled. However, because this source wasn't compiled using the 'official key' when the server sends the TE_IDENTIFY command they will respond incorrectly and be kicked.

Quote:
What if I play on servers that dont enforce cl_pure, such as non tbm action servers

you can set cl_pure to 0 and have the same access to gl_modulate and other settings as everyone else.

simple yet effective.
_________________
Mark 'mSparks' Parker 2010
<pubkey>AJXzWKeV59HaoUkmrCwP9f+kMr8aOIM
jMKy7ACsaRDCE/XuF0orj/jActtfWDMKjg/CixI7JP0Z6lbS99dc
86fxDIQOmfIU8BNYKPmlPA/uY3ZpT9/4iQY0XwKad5eJhDFW
cZ2Z4VUWJzlbuoX/QV4ihTVkr9JnyJb+fN9AOqXH9AQAB</pubkey>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
slacker
Advanced Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 268
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

effective if the server admin is around and willing to make changes..

changes is a word we dont see enough of in the australian aq2 community. we dont have any server admins, infact the only reason we even have TNG on some of the servers is by BEGGING on the ISP game forums. thats the only way we get what we want.

i completely agree with you that high gl_modulate's ruin the effects you've specially coded for ltktbm, but i think more players are adjusted to playing with gl_modulate 100 anyway. i know i am. it was the first time i had to actually play actcity2 using ltktbm's default gl_modulate yesterday, and i was forced to use a bandoiler because i couldn't see what i was shooting. and even with a bandoiler everyone else could see me while using kevlar/laser etc. huge disadvantage over me.

i think the solution to the problem is to make a hybrid ltktbm - one that keeps the ltktbm style of gameplay, but while allowing high gl_modulate's when a special setting is switched.

this way we get to own on the uncpaped modulate servers, while having the better atmosphere/gameplay of aq2 in the darkness.
_________________
<a href='http://www.partydome.us/' target='_blank'>http://www.partydome.us/</a>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mSparks
Advanced Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: North West UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats why cl_pure effects both clients and servers, if its a server, it enfores clients to have cl_pure set, if its a standard server that hasn't been changed then as a client you can set cl_pure to 0 and play with gl_modulate 100.
the idea being as a client you want to play with low gl_modulate if possible, and as such will choose servers with cl_pure set.
another benifit is it goes a long way to stop cheaters, because they cant use source mod cheats, or even non - official clients such as sulq2 which come with a (client side!!) map showing you where other players are, which arn't a cheat as such, but could easily be considered a cheat if used on AQ2 servers.
_________________
Mark 'mSparks' Parker 2010
<pubkey>AJXzWKeV59HaoUkmrCwP9f+kMr8aOIM
jMKy7ACsaRDCE/XuF0orj/jActtfWDMKjg/CixI7JP0Z6lbS99dc
86fxDIQOmfIU8BNYKPmlPA/uY3ZpT9/4iQY0XwKad5eJhDFW
cZ2Z4VUWJzlbuoX/QV4ihTVkr9JnyJb+fN9AOqXH9AQAB</pubkey>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
jitspoe
Newbie


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A high gl_modulate value is a cheat, whether you're used to it or not. :angry: Just because iD ovelooked it doesn't make it ok. If they intended to allow maps to be played entirely bright, r_fullbright wouldn't be on the cheat cvars list. Using shadows to your advantage should be a strategy. Being able to see areas you shouldn't eliminates those stratigies and makes for more stale gameplay -- it's just as bad as a wallhack.

Sorry, this is just a pet peve of mine. High gl_modulates also make maps that I spend many hours getting the light right on look like someone puked all over them or something. It annoys me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slacker
Advanced Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 268
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it all depends on what you find fun in your games..

for me aq2 is a great game because of the fast-paced action, which result in short rounds. unlike counter strike, which have long rounds and slow-paced action - IT SUCKS! so having gl_modulate 100 isnt necessarily bad, it doesnt make the maps look shit. its just that by being able to see everything, a new level of gameplay is introduced. it basically turns into a SHOOT EVERYTHING fest. everywhere you look there's always the chance of you being needed of clicking that trigger down. i love going around the corner, seeing my foe, instantly ducking (i dont dig the laser on autos much), and holding down the trigger to see blood and gibs splatter, and the corspe fly 20 metres into the background. and yes, the sound of the head cracking open gives me joys and tickles too! even better looking when you mow down a group of bots. in the darkness you're never sure of things, it slows down the game play a lot more. and for those of you who have never played gl_modulate 100 for atleast a few hours, i hightly doubt you wouldn't have seen/enjoyed what ive described above.

msparks, you've put in so much work into extra detail in the game - particle effects, smoke effects, and the like. why deliberately make the map dark so these features are concealed?

which makes me think of a new point.. there is another BAD point of playing with darkness. darkness allows camping/hiding - people can sit down with a mp5/kevlar in a dark corner and wait for someone to stumble around, who wouldnt have a clue about them being there. this is comming from personal experience from playing aq2 online for around 3 years now. usually those players that camp/hide are less skilled. so therefore when proper players use gl_modulate 100, we can see them hiding/camping and can easily take them out. then they have no reason to camp/hide then do they? they're just going to lose anyway. they might as well come out of the shadows and atleast attempt to improve their game the proper way. even in my first year of aq2, i was a completely newbie. i freely admit that it happened to me, where i was the camper trying to score some frags for once.

again ill repeat so you dont have to go through the trouble of explaining, darkness is a vital part of the game and it is O.K. but proving that the map still looks decent, gl_modulate 100 is just better. msparks: you've tweaked ltktbm so it looks decent at gl_modulate 100, i dont see any reason why you should hide your work under darkness anymore.

ok thats a fair bit, didnt mean to get so carried away. hope you guys read it all and appreciate it. ta.
_________________
<a href='http://www.partydome.us/' target='_blank'>http://www.partydome.us/</a>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Warclub
Advanced Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha..why dont you guys tell us how you realllllllllllyyy feel about it huh? Razz
Heres my short blurb on it and I promise I wont say anymore.
This game for ME has a certain feel that other newer games fail at...its the movement of the scope...it just flows, like your really looking through one. ( I have shot a few Wink ) Now do that under pressure ...hold it steady.. time your moves...lead your opponent...breath! All while some guys trying to cut you in half with an auto or vaporize all memory of you with a handcannon and still navagate through the mazes of the different maps. Thats what AQ2 represents to me.
Now take those nerves of steel with you to AAO or OFP or BF1942 and the like, and now you got something. :ph34r:

I think games are what you make of it..what flips your switch so to speak
All the gl_modulate tweek does is create the balanced enviorment we need for our style of play
AQ2 is the pratice ground that I spend alot of time on, which is why I want this bot program
to work well.
Its a selfish thing of me, I know...but hey

Gday!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slacker
Advanced Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 268
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i see my last post didnt really catch your attention warclub, because you're more of a sniper i presume? back in the days of when my clan warred frequently, i was actually the designated sniper a lot of the time. so i really label myself as a sniper more than a spammer really.

ok my last post pretty much described the auto/spam aspect of aq2 under gl_modulate 100. but sniping is also GREAT under gl_modulate 100. it is a common belief with most games that snipers stay still, choose good DARK spots on the map to hide and wait for someone to fall into their scope. this is one way to play, but completely opposes the "lights camera action" aspect of aq2. it slows down the game significantly. when sniping with gl_modulate 100 i play with 2 different styles of gameplay:

1) hang around the roof tops of urban/city based maps, or atleast an elevated area to provide cover from the autos. this is not to be confused with hiding/camping as described above. i never remain at one spot, infact in australia you'll hardly have success online that way. this is the main reason i think the aq2 maps have been designed so well. with a few exceptions, EVERY good sniper spot always has multiple entries or exposed areas. so if you stay in one area too long, it's only a matter of time before you get jumped by someone who works an alternate way to gun you down. i dont do this often when playing online, mostly when playing in a war - because all of my opponents are distracted by the designated spammers on the ground.(those using an auto + kevlar item make particularly good targets because they crouch and thus stay still)

2) treat the sniper as an auto, strafe jump around on the ground, and hope you get em in your first or second shot. you'd be supprised how well this can work with a bit of practice. maybe not so much in populated servers/games, but in those small 3vs3 or 4vs4 matches this can be just as fun as spamming.

you still get the thrills of lining up your target, and anticipating that headshot etc. and there is A LOT of strategy involved with sniping using gl_modulate 100. don't believe me? well picture the game where all can be seen. you go to hide, and know that someone sees you. you reload your sniper with _ONE_ bullet only. the chaser hears this and automatically thinks you're going to reload the whole clip, carelessly charging in and waiting to see a free kill reloading his/her weapon. thats when you give him a supprise in return - a person walking through a door makes an easy shot.

there is A LOT of anticipation invovled when all can be seen. just last night i was playing online, a guy went behind a corner with a leg injury but with a shotgun. sniping, i didnt dare come closer. after 2 seconds of nothing, i automatically assumed that was climbing up a ladder so i pointed my scope to the top of the platform. *boom* head shot. it's those kinds of gameplay for which people call you a wallhack for, and that's where all of the fun is at.

see all of this is brought into the new level of gameplay at gl_modulate 50. it's not a cheat, unless somebody else doesnt use it. and software mode is like automatic gl_modulate 50 anyway. so really, anyone NOT using ltktbm has perfect brightness available to them. removing this availabillity of a feature would jut give a lot of people a reason to NOT use ltktbm as well, atleast not the stand-alone client anyway - which i honestly believe is great. you've done very very well msparks. please dont take away what a considerable amount of aq2'ers need Sad
_________________
<a href='http://www.partydome.us/' target='_blank'>http://www.partydome.us/</a>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
tiger@sound.net
Advanced Member


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... One hardware fact is that you can adjust your monitor to almost brightness that you could ever need... :(

(On my new P4 system, I can setup a lot of gamma and/or brightness system settings, before or during the game.)

So,,, limiting gl_modulate, or any brightness controls, will probably only hurt those players without these hardware abilities. :(

PS... one player was bitching about the cartoon-like colors of ltktbm on another forum... (I regularly adjust my gamma to between 1.4 and 1.8 to simply mellow the colors and see into the shadows, just, a little bit better.) B) And, like said above, I really do want to enjoy the new artwork and stain-modifications... If that's Cheating,,, well then,,, just, Sue me... :)

Obtw, I really like that bot-safe De_Dust map... Unfortunately, it seems the BRIGHTEST of ALL of our maps... (Are there any plans to adjust it a little bit closer to the current selection of ltktbm maps?)

... Thanks for some GREAT FUN !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mSparks
Advanced Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: North West UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so why make a big issue out of gl_modulate?

well, you're all missing a BIG point of cl_pure, that has nothing todo with gl_modulate, and that is dirty low damn scum cheaters. and theres ALOT, simply because, with a few source tweeks you can get some nasty effects that arn't wanted.

A prime example is sulq2. now this ISNT a cheat, but it is not intended for use with AQ2 and comes with a map/radar that shows you other players positions even when you cant see them!!! theres a couple of other cheat source mods that add things like glowing skins, speedhacks and other such nasties, and this cl_pure prevents them, plain and simple.

now its a more or less a proven fact that AQ2 has much more atmosphere with a low gl_modulate, hence making it more fun. However all these cheats and such have their place as well (im not saying you may never use these cheats else your bad). what Im saying is you should have the choice, and atm its obvious you dont really have the option of choosing a low gl_modulate value online, because by doing so you will get owned (which kinda beets the fun of having the low gl_modulate value).

I also accept that all darkness is bad, thats why theres the spotlight and new nightvision.

but what I do see is that the spotlight and nightvision mean nothing if a better effect can be had by other players bumping up their gl_modulate value.

Sooo, enter cl_pure, the one stop solution to our problems.

as a server admin by setting cl_pure to 1 you ensure that clients are using a certified AQ2 game engine, and that everyone has the same levels of map lighting

as a client, you can connect to pure ltktbm servers, non pure ltktbm servers or even standard action servers such as tng or just plain jane action. by setting your cl_pure to 0 on all but the pure ltktbm server you have the same access to gl_modulate as everyone else, but to connect to a pure ltktbm server you need cl_pure set to 1 in which case you cant modify gl_modulate.

also, dont confuse gl_modulate with other gamma/brighness settings, the two are completely different. gamma and brightness only alter the properties of light already present (gamma is basically an algebriac contrast function), gl_modulate however creates light within a map which was never intended to be there. -this is why, with a high gl_modulate a maps lighting saturates and appears fullbright, but with max'd out gamma and brightness you will always have some scale of light and dark.

also the other 'badness' of gl_modulate is player contrast to background. with full gl_modulate the player will always contrast the backgound, but even with max gamma and brightness, a player in a very dark area will merge into the background.

this gl_modulate issue has nothing todo with slowing the pace of a game down, its more an issue of how skilled you need to be to wind up on top when the sh1t hits the fan so to speak.

_________________
Mark 'mSparks' Parker 2010
<pubkey>AJXzWKeV59HaoUkmrCwP9f+kMr8aOIM
jMKy7ACsaRDCE/XuF0orj/jActtfWDMKjg/CixI7JP0Z6lbS99dc
86fxDIQOmfIU8BNYKPmlPA/uY3ZpT9/4iQY0XwKad5eJhDFW
cZ2Z4VUWJzlbuoX/QV4ihTVkr9JnyJb+fN9AOqXH9AQAB</pubkey>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
slacker
Advanced Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 268
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok sorry ive misunderstood.. i thought this new cl_pure system was going to remove the gl_modulate entirely. as long as gl_modulate is still there, i dont really mind what you do with the cl_pure movement.

ive actually never heard of sulq2 before, that radar thing sounds pretty cool. but i wouldnt want to use it, it would ruin the game and reminds me of counter strike too much :(

im quite happy now to hear that cl_pure will still leave gl_modulate available fro using now Smile nice work msparks :)

edit: sorry i just read your first post over again and realized you mentioned that gl_modulate would remain there if cl_pure was set to 0. ive kind of wasted a lot of everyone's time here, again i appologize Sad
_________________
<a href='http://www.partydome.us/' target='_blank'>http://www.partydome.us/</a>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Warclub
Advanced Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok,ok...let me try it and see..Im not adverse to trying something new.
So how do I do this? By putting "set cl_pure "0" " into my autoexec file or what?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slacker
Advanced Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 268
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think you have to wait until he implements it. will probably be some time before that happens as well.

msparks: if you dont have cl_pure ready in time for the next final release of ltktbm, please bring gl_modulate back in for players like me who need it ?? ;)

edit: just saw a friend relpy to this message on MSN then:

tommo says:
the next ltktbm will be good
tommo says:
he's going to bring back gl_modulate
-[]D-/-\-[]Z-/-\-|>-{}-><->>Try attempt to reassemble, suggest who i might have been, i do not recognise the vessel, but the eyes says:
thank god

just to show the fury of those gl_modulaters..
_________________
<a href='http://www.partydome.us/' target='_blank'>http://www.partydome.us/</a>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mSparks
Advanced Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: North West UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehe, its done Very Happy
just working on two aspects now.
just got the server minibrowser working and need to put the 1.7a files into a pak file for an update.
the problem Ive got for now is server IPs, for testing I just dumped all the action ip addresses into a text file, but the problem is theres nasty things like nocheat and q2ace servers that I dont really want on there. Prefereably I'd like some IP's of ltktbm servers, but that prbably a bit to much to ask for now? - are there any???
Ill put it in a stuct item at the top of this thread.
_________________
Mark 'mSparks' Parker 2010
<pubkey>AJXzWKeV59HaoUkmrCwP9f+kMr8aOIM
jMKy7ACsaRDCE/XuF0orj/jActtfWDMKjg/CixI7JP0Z6lbS99dc
86fxDIQOmfIU8BNYKPmlPA/uY3ZpT9/4iQY0XwKad5eJhDFW
cZ2Z4VUWJzlbuoX/QV4ihTVkr9JnyJb+fN9AOqXH9AQAB</pubkey>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
slacker
Advanced Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 268
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahh.. nice work nice work! :D

really looking forward to your next release now. the in-game server mini browser sounds like a great idea too. wont need any third-party server browser programs then.
_________________
<a href='http://www.partydome.us/' target='_blank'>http://www.partydome.us/</a>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mSparks
Advanced Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: North West UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

curtosy of the gloom developers (www.planetgloom.com)
for now it just gets its server ips from a static iplist file, but later versions will download the (digitally signed) file from the main site
_________________
Mark 'mSparks' Parker 2010
<pubkey>AJXzWKeV59HaoUkmrCwP9f+kMr8aOIM
jMKy7ACsaRDCE/XuF0orj/jActtfWDMKjg/CixI7JP0Z6lbS99dc
86fxDIQOmfIU8BNYKPmlPA/uY3ZpT9/4iQY0XwKad5eJhDFW
cZ2Z4VUWJzlbuoX/QV4ihTVkr9JnyJb+fN9AOqXH9AQAB</pubkey>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    theborgmatrix.com Forum Index -> General Engine Developement All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group